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	<title>Comments on: Vatican Official Calls for Protections for Same-Gender Couples</title>
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	<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/</link>
	<description>New Ways Ministry: Building Bridges Between the LGBT Community and the Catholic Church</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 12:54:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Pope Francis&#8217; Support of Civil Unions Is Part of a Growing Trend in Catholic Church &#124; Bondings 2.0</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-13967</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pope Francis&#8217; Support of Civil Unions Is Part of a Growing Trend in Catholic Church &#124; Bondings 2.0]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 05:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-13967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Archbishop Vincent Paglia, head of the Vatican&#8217;s Pontifical Council for the Family, also supported legal protections short of marriage for gay and lesbian couples.  A news report [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Archbishop Vincent Paglia, head of the Vatican&#8217;s Pontifical Council for the Family, also supported legal protections short of marriage for gay and lesbian couples.  A news report [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anti-LGBT Remarks in Malawi and Cameroon a Warning Sign as Conclave Approaches &#124; Bondings 2.0</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-13442</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anti-LGBT Remarks in Malawi and Cameroon a Warning Sign as Conclave Approaches &#124; Bondings 2.0]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 06:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-13442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] have spoken positively of same-gender relationships and, while opposing marriage rights, offered an openness to alternative legal structures for LGBT [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have spoken positively of same-gender relationships and, while opposing marriage rights, offered an openness to alternative legal structures for LGBT [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Did a Vatican Official Backtrack from His Supportive LGBT Stance? &#171; Bondings 2.0</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-12656</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Did a Vatican Official Backtrack from His Supportive LGBT Stance? &#171; Bondings 2.0]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2013 06:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-12656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Earlier this week, we reported on positive comments about same-gender couples made by Archbishop Vincent Paglia, head of the Vatican&#8217;s Pontifical Council for the Family, and noted that it seemed to be part of a trend among international bishops in making positive statements about the relationships of lesbian and gay people. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Earlier this week, we reported on positive comments about same-gender couples made by Archbishop Vincent Paglia, head of the Vatican&#8217;s Pontifical Council for the Family, and noted that it seemed to be part of a trend among international bishops in making positive statements about the relationships of lesbian and gay people. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tomfluce</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-12653</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tomfluce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 20:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-12653</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[O.K. Not surprised.  My feeling after studying the French/English/Welsh bishops&#039; statement is that our focus (New Way&#039;s?) or someone&#039;s needs to be on asserting the authenticity of LGBTQs&#039; marriage vow.  As I read it in catholicboyrichard&#039;s blog yesterday there are plenty of those of us (Catholics) who still believe we are profligate by definition.  Zach Wahl&#039;s and all the beautiful commitment ceremonies should be what we&#039;re working on getting into the consciousness of even our most ardent supporters.  Working on getting respect is still important, of course--are we going to engage Paglia in trying to get the Pope to stop spreading those hate-generating proclamations?-- but I think getting our commitment on a par (minus the procreation plumbing) with hetero marriages is the thing.  Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O.K. Not surprised.  My feeling after studying the French/English/Welsh bishops&#8217; statement is that our focus (New Way&#8217;s?) or someone&#8217;s needs to be on asserting the authenticity of LGBTQs&#8217; marriage vow.  As I read it in catholicboyrichard&#8217;s blog yesterday there are plenty of those of us (Catholics) who still believe we are profligate by definition.  Zach Wahl&#8217;s and all the beautiful commitment ceremonies should be what we&#8217;re working on getting into the consciousness of even our most ardent supporters.  Working on getting respect is still important, of course&#8211;are we going to engage Paglia in trying to get the Pope to stop spreading those hate-generating proclamations?&#8211; but I think getting our commitment on a par (minus the procreation plumbing) with hetero marriages is the thing.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-12643</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Will]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2013 09:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-12643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sadly Paglia has now been backtracking as fast as he can once he realised that his words might have been interpreted as softening the church&#039;s view on Gay Marriage. He has reaffirmed the Church hierarchy&#039;s contempt for gay people and blamed the media for &#039;derailing&#039; his comments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly Paglia has now been backtracking as fast as he can once he realised that his words might have been interpreted as softening the church&#8217;s view on Gay Marriage. He has reaffirmed the Church hierarchy&#8217;s contempt for gay people and blamed the media for &#8216;derailing&#8217; his comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Vatican Official Calls for Protections for Same-Gender Couples &#124; catholicboyrichard</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-12536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vatican Official Calls for Protections for Same-Gender Couples &#124; catholicboyrichard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2013 22:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-12536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Vatican Official Calls for Protections for Same-Gender Couples. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vatican Official Calls for Protections for Same-Gender Couples. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bjmonda</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-12532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bjmonda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2013 21:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-12532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder when the Church (Vatican) is going to understand that there is a difference between CIVIL LAW and Church Law.  And Jesus was emphatic about keeping them separate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder when the Church (Vatican) is going to understand that there is a difference between CIVIL LAW and Church Law.  And Jesus was emphatic about keeping them separate.</p>
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		<title>By: tomfluce</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-12529</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tomfluce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2013 20:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-12529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[O.K. Francis, I&#039;ve decided that the French Bishops basically, whether or not intentional, are disingenuous participants in the public debate about same-sex marriage.  Probably the English/Welsh bishops too, and Card. Paglia.

Yeah, they do say &quot;encouraging&quot; things like they can envision change. They call, like Vincent Paglia does, for serious protection of LGBTQ&#039;s in battles over laws making us illegal.  But is he &quot;dissenting&quot; with Josef Ratzinger or just detailing #2358? And with the hordes of Catholic blog posters and Catholic newspaper editorials who condemn us so badly here in the US with the support of Catechism 2351 ff about offenses against chastity, including 2358 that says we&#039;re depraved and intrinsically disordered? I&#039;ve decided we need to work on the real problem, acceptance of our genuine sacrifices as equally valid as those of the hetero married.  We&#039;re only delaying getting to the center of the dissent: The deep sacrificial commitments of a marriage relationship, not the genital plumbing hookups.

Christine, above, helped me clarify this thing today.  #2358 brings us to the heart of the dissent, really an impossible dichotomy, &quot;depraved&quot; in #2357, worthy of &quot;respect&quot; in #2358, and called to total chastity in #2359.  The hierarchy has had this &quot;respect&quot; thing for a long while, &quot;All Our Children&quot; etc.  The theology of love (social justice, human relations) has to trump biology. I wonder whether Galileo would have thought his dissent was more valid than ours?

More importantly are we building a &quot;dissent with love&quot; model with people like brother Vincent and brother Geoffrey Robinson and the like, working from within?  And not just the model and theories/historical basis of dissent, but a transparent, brave, loving network of dissenters that can exert real pressure for change?  Yes, change comes bit by bit, but without radical bits and big radical bits, the violence against us kills for longer times. The first step is doing &quot;the least harm&quot; not getting a new catechism.   I cannot imagine putting up with such slow bits of change if I were anyone in slavery.  (Did you hear about the Irish slaveshops for unwed mothers run by nuns that is now being investigated by the government?)

Brother Geoffrey declined my suggestion at New Ways&#039; 7th last year that he be the leader of such a loving dissent network.  I can understand a person&#039;s lack of time/energy.  But without the union of many people of his stature and intellectual prowess coupled with the rest of us diehards, the change will be painfully slow and the guilt will be ours for not trying harder.  O.K. I also understand that the prophetic work of New Ways, Dignity and all the wonderfully supportive organizations do make our case strongly and crystal clear.  But isn&#039;t it time to create this 21st century model for dissent that leaves out excommunication/defection and everything else that, short of execution/incarceration, is still so damaging?

What does Catholic mean?  Worrying about eternal damnation because of defying a Catholic catechetical definition?  Worrying about being barred from participating in the Eucharist?  About a priest&#039;s or other hierarch&#039;s pronunciations?  Yes, sexuality or rather homosexuality is in a category all by itself.  Even male priests getting married to women (oh dear), and clearly women deacons, are now issues that seem ready for acceptance.  But same-sex marriage is off limits even within Catholic reform groups in my experience like CTA, ACC etc.  And these groups, of course, are not approved Catholic organizations to begin with.  (What has happened to CALGM?)  The gay thing is getting closer attention to the basic Christian commandment about love, but we&#039;re being sidetracked with the talk about respect.

So I&#039;m changing my approach.  I think its a trap, a distraction, getting focussed on treating LGBT&#039;s with respect for human dignity instead of lovingly pushing the obvious (to a growing majority) truth about the essence of marriage by LGBT&#039;s not being a thing of sexual plumbing, but about a solemn commitment to life beyond simple &quot;natural procreation&quot;, a sacrifice for building the social justice &quot;loving&quot; world-wide community. We need to teach that sexual pleasure is just as much a God-created part of such solemn unions whether hetero or homo.  We need to remove the pious (sanctimonious) nosegay in #2358/59 that we must practice total abstinence and &quot;... unite to the sacrifice of the Lord&#039;s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition&quot;; that we can achieve &quot;Christian perfection.&quot;

Did you see Amy Goodman today and the piece with Zach Wahls, founder of the group, &quot;Scouts for Equality&quot;?  Wahls’ lesbian parents were actively involved in his Boy Scout activities, and he wants others to be allowed a similar opportunity. His book,  &quot;My Two Moms: Lessons of Love, Strength, and What Makes a Family&quot; and many other stories are what we should be sending out to the likes of Brother Vincent and to other centers of influence in the Catholic (the catechetic adherents or who count themselves as &quot;active&quot;) Church.  No more getting schmoozed by those who say we shouldn&#039;t be discriminated against and still stick by the catechism waiting for some millennial process while we are harmed, many of us, mortally.

So now with the English and Welsh Bishops making positive statements, I&#039;m very wary of spending time on them with &quot;their&quot; topic.  Let&#039;s give them and all Catholics around the world a vision of what the next stage of &quot;respect for human dignity&quot; is.  Let&#039;s show them the Zach Wahls of the world.  Show them that they should be --including the KofC-- spending some of their money on supporting us for our solemn commitments, or least not spending any money denouncing those of us who break the mold of biological plumbing and still make the sacrifices of married life.  Or maybe they should be giving their money to the poor sinners failing around #2331 and  ff -sins against chastity-- who are really devastating the world by breaking the 6th Commandment.

Thanks, Francis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O.K. Francis, I&#8217;ve decided that the French Bishops basically, whether or not intentional, are disingenuous participants in the public debate about same-sex marriage.  Probably the English/Welsh bishops too, and Card. Paglia.</p>
<p>Yeah, they do say &#8220;encouraging&#8221; things like they can envision change. They call, like Vincent Paglia does, for serious protection of LGBTQ&#8217;s in battles over laws making us illegal.  But is he &#8220;dissenting&#8221; with Josef Ratzinger or just detailing #2358? And with the hordes of Catholic blog posters and Catholic newspaper editorials who condemn us so badly here in the US with the support of Catechism 2351 ff about offenses against chastity, including 2358 that says we&#8217;re depraved and intrinsically disordered? I&#8217;ve decided we need to work on the real problem, acceptance of our genuine sacrifices as equally valid as those of the hetero married.  We&#8217;re only delaying getting to the center of the dissent: The deep sacrificial commitments of a marriage relationship, not the genital plumbing hookups.</p>
<p>Christine, above, helped me clarify this thing today.  #2358 brings us to the heart of the dissent, really an impossible dichotomy, &#8220;depraved&#8221; in #2357, worthy of &#8220;respect&#8221; in #2358, and called to total chastity in #2359.  The hierarchy has had this &#8220;respect&#8221; thing for a long while, &#8220;All Our Children&#8221; etc.  The theology of love (social justice, human relations) has to trump biology. I wonder whether Galileo would have thought his dissent was more valid than ours?</p>
<p>More importantly are we building a &#8220;dissent with love&#8221; model with people like brother Vincent and brother Geoffrey Robinson and the like, working from within?  And not just the model and theories/historical basis of dissent, but a transparent, brave, loving network of dissenters that can exert real pressure for change?  Yes, change comes bit by bit, but without radical bits and big radical bits, the violence against us kills for longer times. The first step is doing &#8220;the least harm&#8221; not getting a new catechism.   I cannot imagine putting up with such slow bits of change if I were anyone in slavery.  (Did you hear about the Irish slaveshops for unwed mothers run by nuns that is now being investigated by the government?)</p>
<p>Brother Geoffrey declined my suggestion at New Ways&#8217; 7th last year that he be the leader of such a loving dissent network.  I can understand a person&#8217;s lack of time/energy.  But without the union of many people of his stature and intellectual prowess coupled with the rest of us diehards, the change will be painfully slow and the guilt will be ours for not trying harder.  O.K. I also understand that the prophetic work of New Ways, Dignity and all the wonderfully supportive organizations do make our case strongly and crystal clear.  But isn&#8217;t it time to create this 21st century model for dissent that leaves out excommunication/defection and everything else that, short of execution/incarceration, is still so damaging?</p>
<p>What does Catholic mean?  Worrying about eternal damnation because of defying a Catholic catechetical definition?  Worrying about being barred from participating in the Eucharist?  About a priest&#8217;s or other hierarch&#8217;s pronunciations?  Yes, sexuality or rather homosexuality is in a category all by itself.  Even male priests getting married to women (oh dear), and clearly women deacons, are now issues that seem ready for acceptance.  But same-sex marriage is off limits even within Catholic reform groups in my experience like CTA, ACC etc.  And these groups, of course, are not approved Catholic organizations to begin with.  (What has happened to CALGM?)  The gay thing is getting closer attention to the basic Christian commandment about love, but we&#8217;re being sidetracked with the talk about respect.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m changing my approach.  I think its a trap, a distraction, getting focussed on treating LGBT&#8217;s with respect for human dignity instead of lovingly pushing the obvious (to a growing majority) truth about the essence of marriage by LGBT&#8217;s not being a thing of sexual plumbing, but about a solemn commitment to life beyond simple &#8220;natural procreation&#8221;, a sacrifice for building the social justice &#8220;loving&#8221; world-wide community. We need to teach that sexual pleasure is just as much a God-created part of such solemn unions whether hetero or homo.  We need to remove the pious (sanctimonious) nosegay in #2358/59 that we must practice total abstinence and &#8220;&#8230; unite to the sacrifice of the Lord&#8217;s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition&#8221;; that we can achieve &#8220;Christian perfection.&#8221;</p>
<p>Did you see Amy Goodman today and the piece with Zach Wahls, founder of the group, &#8220;Scouts for Equality&#8221;?  Wahls’ lesbian parents were actively involved in his Boy Scout activities, and he wants others to be allowed a similar opportunity. His book,  &#8220;My Two Moms: Lessons of Love, Strength, and What Makes a Family&#8221; and many other stories are what we should be sending out to the likes of Brother Vincent and to other centers of influence in the Catholic (the catechetic adherents or who count themselves as &#8220;active&#8221;) Church.  No more getting schmoozed by those who say we shouldn&#8217;t be discriminated against and still stick by the catechism waiting for some millennial process while we are harmed, many of us, mortally.</p>
<p>So now with the English and Welsh Bishops making positive statements, I&#8217;m very wary of spending time on them with &#8220;their&#8221; topic.  Let&#8217;s give them and all Catholics around the world a vision of what the next stage of &#8220;respect for human dignity&#8221; is.  Let&#8217;s show them the Zach Wahls of the world.  Show them that they should be &#8211;including the KofC&#8211; spending some of their money on supporting us for our solemn commitments, or least not spending any money denouncing those of us who break the mold of biological plumbing and still make the sacrifices of married life.  Or maybe they should be giving their money to the poor sinners failing around #2331 and  ff -sins against chastity&#8211; who are really devastating the world by breaking the 6th Commandment.</p>
<p>Thanks, Francis.</p>
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		<title>By: Terri Hemker</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-12524</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terri Hemker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2013 18:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-12524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m pretty sure the author of the blog here knows all about Catholic teaching regarding contraception but it&#039;s a good thing to point out to others who read the blog and might not know. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure the author of the blog here knows all about Catholic teaching regarding contraception but it&#8217;s a good thing to point out to others who read the blog and might not know. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Christine</title>
		<link>http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/vatican-official-calls-for-protections-for-same-gender-couples/#comment-12510</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2013 16:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/?p=4458#comment-12510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the post, but please don’t confuse Catholic teachings about respect for human dignity with Catholic teachings about sexuality and marriage.  Paragraph 2358 of the Catechism states that homosexuals “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”  The paragraph illustrates Catholic teaching on respect for the dignity of the human person, and it is this teaching (rather than some sort of growing acceptance for same-sex marriage) that is illustrated in the examples from your article.  Respect for the dignity of the human person is unrelated to whether the Catholic Church will ever accept same-sex marriage.  The Church’s belief that sex must have at least the potential to be life-giving will not change.  In order to better understand Catholic teaching about same-sex marriage, it might be useful for you to gain increased understanding about Catholic teaching regarding contraception.  :) 

God bless...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the post, but please don’t confuse Catholic teachings about respect for human dignity with Catholic teachings about sexuality and marriage.  Paragraph 2358 of the Catechism states that homosexuals “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”  The paragraph illustrates Catholic teaching on respect for the dignity of the human person, and it is this teaching (rather than some sort of growing acceptance for same-sex marriage) that is illustrated in the examples from your article.  Respect for the dignity of the human person is unrelated to whether the Catholic Church will ever accept same-sex marriage.  The Church’s belief that sex must have at least the potential to be life-giving will not change.  In order to better understand Catholic teaching about same-sex marriage, it might be useful for you to gain increased understanding about Catholic teaching regarding contraception.  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>God bless&#8230;</p>
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