Vatican’s ‘Defeat for Humanity’ Statement Shows Church Officials Have Not Learned from the Irish Example

May 28, 2015

Reactions to Ireland’s historic referendum vote to establish same-gender marriage in that nation have brought responses from around the globe.  The latest reaction came from the Vatican Secretary of State who said it was “Not a defeat for Christian principles, it was a defeat for humanity.”

Cardinal Pietro Parolin

Religion News Service noted that Cardinal Pietro Parolin made this comment while speaking on Vatican Radio, and that he also noted “The Church must take account of this reality, but in the sense of reinforcing its commitment to evangelization.”

This reaction from a high Vatican official differed from those of someone closer to Ireland, Dublin’s Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, who had stated that he thought the Church needed to consider the views of young people on this and other issues:

“I think really the church needs to do a reality check right across the board, to look at the areas in which we’re doing well and see have we drifted away completely from young people.”

Martin also acknowledged that gay and lesbian people would see the new legal option “enriching as the way they live”–a far cry from calling it a threat to humanity.

Parolin’s remarks seem to be part of a shift from the more positive rhetoric that Pope Francis had been employing in regard to LGBT issues. More recently, however, Pope Francis has made it clear that he opposes marriage equality initiatives. His speech at a Vatican-sponsored conference on “sexual complementarity” last fall, and an address about marriage and family during his visit to the Philippines are two examples. Yet, as a Guardian analysis of Parolin’s remarks pointed out:

“Parolin differed from the pope in one respect: the Argentinian pontiff has also used the phrase ‘defeat for humanity,’ but he was talking about war, not the legalisation of gay marriage.”

The heightened rhetoric of Parolin, though, is not only harmful because it is so harsh, but because it shows that Vatican officials have not yet absorbed the lesson of Ireland.  Throughout this past week, commentators have remarked on the significant change that this vote represents.  Even Archbishop Diarmuid Martin referred to it as a “social revolution.”

For instance, the Irish victory has emboldened other nations to go forward, with leaders in Italy and Germany calling for  similar votes.  In Germany, though many in the ruling Christian Democratic Union party  and the Green party are calling for marriage equality, Chancellor Angela Merkel has spoken against it. Following Ireland’s example, Greenland’s parliament voted to adopt Danish laws on marriage equality.  The Irish victory has re-introduced the topic of marriage equality into Australia’s parliament. While Tony Abbott, the Australian prime minister opposes the discussion, Bill Shorter, an opposition leader asked:

“If the Irish people can vote in favour of marriage equality, the question has to be asked, what is Tony Abbott’s problem with it?”

Indeed, Frank Bruni, a New York Times columnist, has pointed out something that we have noted on this blog for a long time:  that Catholic people and Catholic nations have been in the forefront of the LGBT equality movement around the globe.  In speaking of Irish and other Catholic voters, Bruni said:

“They aren’t sloughing off their Catholicism — not exactly, not entirely. An overwhelming majority of them still identify as Catholic. But they’re incorporating religion into their lives in a manner less rooted in Rome.

“We journalists too often use ‘the Catholic Church’ as a synonym for the pope, the cardinals and teachings that have the Vatican’s stamp of approval.

“But in Europe and the Americas in particular, the church is much more fluid than that. It harbors spiritually inclined people paying primary obeisance to their own consciences, their own senses of social justice. That impulse and tradition are as Catholic as any others.”

With such momentum underway on the part of many nations and Catholic populations, Parolin’s extreme language will only continue to alienate people from Catholicism. It seems that he hasn’t learned that such language only pushes people further away. In Ireland, Fr. Brendan Hoban, a co-founder of the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) in that country, observed that strong opposition messages from the bishops there worked against the hierachy’s goal.  Hoban stated in an Irish Times article:

“It was clear from the beginning that the bishops’ decision in policy terms to campaign for a blunt No vote was alienating even the most conservative of Irish Catholics. . . . [The referendum results highlighted] the gap between the church and a significant number of its people… It is so out of tune with the needs of the people.”

In the same article, Fr. Tony Flannery, another co-founder of ACP observed how the bishops’ strategy was not only a political, but a pastoral mistake. He said:

“[T]he day of doctrinaire Catholicism is over in this country. The people are no longer willing to listen to speeches and sermons on morality from the church.

“What was ‘particularly sad was to see the bishops in total opposition to a mass movement of the younger generation.’

“The very people whom the church should be trying to listen to, and trying to learn a way of communicating effectively with, were the ones they were driving further away with all their pastorals in each diocese.”

Instead of ramping up the negative rhetoric, bishops and church officials should focus on another form of communication which LGBT Catholics and supporters have requested for decades: dialogue.  Indeed, that was the message of Dave Donnellan, secretary of “Gay Catholic Voice of Ireland,” the LGBT Catholic organization in the Emerald Isle.  In a statement responding to the referendum vote, Donnellan spoke of the joy the members of his organization felt, but also added:

“As gay Catholics this profound joy was, however, tinged with deep disappointment that our own Church opposed this change. Whilst Archbishop Diarmuid Martin’s comment that the Catholic Church needs a ‘reality check’ was noted, if this ‘reality check’ does not involve sitting down and having a dialogue with LGBT Catholics in his own diocese then it is of little value.”

If the Irish example teaches anything, it should teach church leaders that dialogue is the answer to how to proceed regarding not only marriage equality, but all LGBT issues.

–Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry

(Editor’s note:  There has been so much written on the landmark Irish referendum ushering in marriage equality that it has been hard to keep up with all of it.  Expect another post in a few days with more responses and analysis.)

Related articles

New York Times: “Vatican Official Denounces Ireland’s Vote for Same-Sex Marriage”

Crux: “Vatican: Irish marriage vote was a defeat for humanity”

Gay City News: “After This, No Exile: A Gay Priest Reflects on Ireland’s Declaration of Independence”

Religion Dispatches: “Did Ireland Just Bury the Catholic Church?”

Crux: “Irish voters were not swayed by their Church”

Huffington Post: “The Irish Referendum and the Future of Catholicism”

 


Join Modern Family’s Eric Stonestreet in Supporting ‘Bondings 2.0′

May 28, 2015

Eric Stonestreet

Today marks 3 and 1/2 years since New Ways Ministry started this blog.  It’s amazing how much we have grown in that time, especially in readership.

While we are proud of all of our readers, we recently learned about a particular reader who we would like to highlight.   Do you watch ABC-TV’s Modern Family? It’s an Emmy-award-winning sitcom which explores contemporary family issues, including a gay couple with an adopted child.

We recently learned that Eric Stonestreet, the actor who plays Cam, one of the gay fathers, has taken notice of Bondings 2.0. Stonestreet, who himself has won two Emmy awards for the show, was recently interviewed on HuffPost Live, and in the course of his conversation, he mentioned a topic that was featured on our blog. To illustrate, the HuffPost Live producers showed our blog post on the screen while Stonestreet spoke of the content.  How exciting to see Bondings 2.0 featured so prominently on such an influential news show!  You can catch the visual and Stonestreet’s comments by clicking here, and scrolling to the 7:50 minute mark and watch and listen for about a minute or so.

We know that Stonestreet had seen the story on Bondings 2.0 previously because the actor had tweeted the link to our blog post to his followers on the same day we published it, about a week before the HuffPost Live interview.The post that caught Stonestreet’s eye was the May 16, 2015, item when we reported on a Vatican official praising Modern Family for its realistic depiction of contemporary issues.

Tweet from @EricStonestreet

Tweet from @EricStonestreet

While we are proud to know that Stonestreet likes us, we are even prouder of our readers, subscribers, and commenters who are regularly a part of what makes this blog a respected source of news and opinion on Catholic LGBT issues. Journalists, researchers, scholars, and advocates have all told us that they turn to Bondings 2.0 to learn about the evolving relationship between the Catholic Church and the LGBT community.

What gratifies us most are the many comments we receive in notes, emails, phone calls, and personal conversations from the great mass of readers who tell us that this blog helps them keep up with the news and provides them with some things to reflect on for their spiritual journeys.  Many folks have told us that reading this blog has become an important part of their morning ritual. Truly, all of these messages are incredibly encouraging for us, and we are grateful for the opportunity to be helpful.

Every six months, on the anniversary of the blog (November 28) and the half-year anniversary (May 28), we make an appeal to our readers for financial support for the blog.  If you are able to send a gift to help New Ways Ministry keep this project vibrant, we would greatly appreciate it.  We don’t ask for contributions at any other time of the year.

You can donate by clicking here, and you will be brought to New Ways Ministry’s website donation page.  When you fill out the donation form online, please type “blog” in the comments section of the form so that we know that is why you are contributing.   You can also mail a check made out to “New Ways Ministry” to our offices at 4012  29th Street, Mount Rainier, MD  20712.  Or call us during business hours at 301-277-5674, and we can take your credit card donation over the phone.  However you decide to contribute, your donation is tax-deductible.

Another way you can show your support is by telling your friends about the blog and encouraging them to subscribe by entering an email address in the “Follow” box at the top of the right hand column of the blog page and clicking the button.  If you yourself are not a subscriber, you might want to do the same.  As a subscriber, you will receive an email every time the blog is updated, usually once a day.  That way, you will never miss out on the latest news.

Thank you in advance for your support.  We wouldn’t be a blog without the great community that we have out there.  Thanks for all that each of you is doing, in your own ways, big and small, to build bridges between the Catholic Church and the LGBT community.

–Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry


Will World Meeting of Families Accept Catholic LGBT Organizations?

May 25, 2015

In September of 2015, the Vatican-sponsored World Meeting of Families (WMF) will bring together about 20,000 pilgrims to Philadelphia from all over the world to discuss family issues in the light of faith.  Families with LGBT members, however, are not being provided with the opportunity to be visible officially at the event.

Two national Catholic organizations that support LGBT ministry and outreach are still waiting to hear from the WMF administration if they will be allowed to have a presence, either by exhibit table or advertising space, at the international conference scheduled for the end of September 2015.

The National Catholic Reporter noted that both Fortunate Families (FF), a national network of Catholic parents of LGBT people, and the Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministry (CALGM), have not received a response from their applications to be allowed to have a table to distribute information about themselves to the pilgrim families.

Deb Word, with husband Steven in the background.

Fortunate Families applied for an exhibit table last August, and was told that they were rejected for “lack of information,”  according to FF Board President Deb Word.  After re-applying in February, she learned at the beginning of this month that the application was again rejected, though no reason was given.   They will now apply to have an advertisement in the program booklet for the event.

When The National Catholic Reporter inquired to the World Meeting of Families administration as to the reason for rejecting FF, Ken Gavin, communication director for the Philadelphia archdiocese, local organizers for the WMF, responded circumspectly:

“Applications for exhibitors are reviewed by staff within the World Meeting of Families Office and WMOF-Philadelphia 2015 reserves the right to approve or deny various applications. … If an organization has a question about the status of their application or the decision rendered, they should be in contact with the entity directly.”

Word had also been in contact with WMF organizers because she was being considered as a possible participant on a panel about the church and gay issues.  She was not accepted, and the panel will have only two members:  a celibate gay Catholic man and his mother.

As for CALGM, they, too, applied for an exhibit table last year, but have still not heard if they have been accepted.  The news article stated:

Arthur Fitzmaurice, resource director for CALGM, told NCR he is confident that meeting organizers will ‘resolve this.’ He submitted his group’s application for exhibit space last year, complete with credit card information, and reapplied using the same form in early 2015.”

One national Catholic organization that has been accepted as an exhibitor at the meeting is Courage, which is a ministry which directs lesbian and gay people to celibacy.  The news article says that their method is based on  “five goals that include chastity, prayer, and fellowship and utilizes a 12-step format based on the Alcoholics Anonymous model.”

The news article also reported on pro-LGBT activities at the WMF that are being sponsored by New Ways Ministry and the Equally Blessed Coalition:

New Ways Ministry also plans to host a workshop on gender identity issues; co-sponsor a reception for LGBT Catholics, families, and allies; [the Equally Blessed Coalition will]. . . sponsor several dozen Catholic ‘pilgrims’ from nontraditional families who will be sent out each day with the ‘message that lesbian/gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex persons are also part of families’ during the week.”

For more information about New Ways Ministry events at WMF, please send inquiry emails to: info@NewWaysMinistry.org.

For more information about the Equally Blessed Coalition’s pilgrims to WMF, please click here.   You can donate financially to support these pilgrims’ work by clicking here.

The World Meeting of Families may not accept organizations such as Fortunate Families, CALGM, New Ways Ministry, and the Equally Blessed Coalition, but that will not prevent them from going forth in every way possible to spread a pro-LGBT message and witness at this international gathering.

–Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry

 


A Great Day for Irish Lay Catholics! And for Lay Catholics in El Salvador, Too!

May 23, 2015

The following is the statement of Francis DeBernardo, Executive Director, New Ways Ministry, on the occasion of Ireland voting to legalize marriage for lesbian and gay couples:

Today, headlines around the world announced Catholic news from two different parts of the globe, which may seem disparate, but which share an important common theme.

Crowds outside Dublin Castle celebrate Ireland’s marriage equality victory.

In Ireland, one of the most Catholic nations on earth, hundreds of thousands voted overwhelmingly in a general referendum to enact marriage equality for lesbian and gay couples.

In El Salvador, a strongly Catholic nation, hundreds of thousands turned out for beatification ceremonies for Archbishop Oscar Romero, who was martyred 35 years ago while celebrating Mass.

What do these two stories have in common?   In both cases, the opinion of Catholic lay people has won the day, even when the church’s hierarchy opposed both developments.  In both cases, the sense of the faithful overcame institutional fears and customs.  In both cases, Catholic ideals were articulated and lived out by the laity.

In Ireland, the Catholic bishops spoke out consistently against the establishment of marriage equality.  Their statements have been documented here on this blog.  But lay people insisted that allowing lesbian and gay couples to marry was consistent with Catholic principles of equality, fairness, human dignity, and family stability.

In El Salvador, lay people instantly declared Romero as a saint at the time of his death, but his cause for canonization was hindered during the papacies of John Paul II and Benedict XVI because Vatican officials feared any possible endorsement of liberation theology.  But lay people, especially those who were living in poverty, insisted that Romero, who defended their rights and human dignity fearlessly, was indeed worthy of veneration as a martyr.

Crowds gather for the beatification Mass for Archbishop Oscar Romero in El Salvador.

In both of these cases, the prayers and work of lay people have won out over hierarchical reluctance.

New Ways Ministry prays with joy for both nations for their courage and determination to bring about justice and Catholic ideals into the public square.

There is still work to be done in both cases. In El Salvador, the advancement towards canonizing Romero as a saint must still be completed. The support of Pope Francis in this case may help to speed up the process.

In Ireland, the Catholic Church there needs to learn to work together once again–hierarchy and laity.  There will be pastoral work needed to help unite Catholics who were opposed during the marriage equality campaign.  U.S. bishops who have been involved in marriage equality debates have yet to do this type of work, and our church is hurting and losing many of the faithful because of omission of this step.

In Ireland, the job may be a bit lighter because the hierarchy’s leader, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin (vice- president of the nation’s bishops conference) has been extremely courteous in their opposition to marriage equality.  While maintaining consistent and strong opposition to marriage equality, he also voiced respect for those who held a different opinion.  He worked hard for his position, but he worked even harder to make sure that those who disagreed with him would not be alienated from the Church.

Congratulations and prayerful thanks to the Catholics of Ireland who have shown what we here in the U.S. have known for a long time:  that Catholic lay people support marriage equality because they are Catholic, not in spite of being Catholic.

Congratulations and prayerful best wishes to the Catholics of El Salvador who have shown that the preferential option for the poor is a pillar of Catholicism and that our church should honor those who live out that principle even in the face of violent opposition.

Yesterday was a day when, to paraphrase Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.,  the arc of the moral universe bent a little more toward justice.

–Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry

 

 


Swiss and Swedish Incidents Reveal the Need for LGBT Education for Clergy

May 23, 2015

Switzerland and Sweden have recently shared a similar sad experience.  In each country, a local Catholic church leader ended up apologizing and retracting incorrect negative statements made publicly about lesbian and gay people.  The cases highlight how bishops and priests so desperately need to be educated about the basics of LGBT lives.

A Swiss bishop has done a flip-flop regarding a statement he made to a French-language newspaper in which he claimed that a homosexual orientation can be “cured” through psychological or prayer interventions.

Bishop Jean-Marie Lovey

LGBTQNation.com reported on the prelate’s original statements:

“Jean-Marie Lovey, one of Switzerland’s most prominent Catholic Bishops, said on Tuesday that he is persuaded that ‘homosexuality can be cured’ by prayer or ‘psychological healing.’

“Lovey, who is the Bishop of Sion, in southern Switzerland, told the Swiss daily Le Nouvelliste that gay people sometime feel their sexuality to be ‘like an injury or suffering. We must therefore, honor their desire for change.’

“ ‘Regarding the fundamental question – “can a homosexual person change?” – there is a domain which you be sure of: prayer,’ said Lovey.

“ ‘In nature, the human being is gendered, masculine-feminine. And is not fully human unless he lives this complementarity. It is a question of natural morality,’ he said. ‘Homosexuality can be cured.’ ”

A few days later with another newspaper, Le Matin, Lovey corrected his original statements.  SwissInfo.ch reported on this second interview, which had also originally been conducted in French:

In Thursday’s Le Matin interview the bishop said he was very surprised by the heated reactions to his comments, both on social media and by gay and lesbian organisations, which he said were ‘misunderstood’.

“ ‘I don’t consider homosexuality to be an illness. But I do know people whose homosexual tendencies were fleeting, without claiming this is the case for everyone. I used the term “cure” for a person who was homosexual and who talks in these terms about his personal experience,’ said Lovey.”

In the first interview,  the bishop did state that he felt that being did not diminish a person’s human dignity, and so gay people should be respected.

Father Ingvar Fogelqvist

This Swiss incident echoes a similar one which happened in Sweden in April. TheLocal.se reported that a priest in that country made mis-informed comments about the psychology of lesbian and gay people, but then, later, apologized and corrected his remarks.  The news article stated:

“Preaching to the Catholic parish of Ärkeängeln Sankt Mikael in Växjö, priest Ingvar Fogelqvist allegedly told students at a confirmation class that certain gay people could be ‘cured’ of their ‘psychological disorder’ while other forms of homosexuality are incurable.

“The priest added that gay people, as well as those who suffer from impotence or other health problems, should not take on the responsibility of family life. . . .

“When contacted by The Local Fogelqvist was not immediately available for comment, but in a press release. . . he later apologized for his comments and said they had been taken out of context.

“ ‘My wording in the interview is clumsy, and I would therefore like to apologize to anyone who may have felt hurt by what I have said. Some of the quotes have also been taken out of context. It was not my intention in any way to express myself in an offensive way against homosexuals,’ he wrote.

“ ‘What I meant by incurable was that homosexuality can be a permanent sexual orientation and is not to be regarded as an illness that can be cured,’ he added.

While it is good that Bishop Lovey and Father Ingvar Fogelqvist  corrected themselves, I hope that they and other bishops  and priests learn from this incident an important lesson: they need to educate themselves about basic scientific knowledge and theological developments about LGBT people.  As educated people, bishops and priests should not be making such ill-informed comments.  It indicates their lack of knowledge about sexual orientation and the lives of LGBT people.

Lovey, like many bishops who have made negative comments about lesbian and gay relationships, has acknowledged that respect for LGBT people is a main tenet of church teaching.  The most basic form of respect is to not speak about a person or group of persons without the most basic knowledge of their reality.

–Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry


Colombian Bishop Apologizes for Angering All with Lesbian & Gay Remarks

May 21, 2015

It’s pretty rare, and thus news, when a Catholic bishop makes statements about gay and lesbian people that equally anger both liberals and conservatives.  It’s even rarer to hear a Catholic bishop apologize for any of his statements.

Bishop Juan Vicente Córdoba

Yet, a bishop in Colombia did both those things this past week. Bishop Juan Vicente Córdoba of Fontibón, Colombia, created a stir last week, when during a university talk about same-sex marriage, he proposed the idea that one of the Apostles was perhaps gay and Mary Magdalene might have been a lesbian.

In his talk, he also suggested that gay and lesbian couples be respected, though he did not support marriage or adoption rights for them.  But, he also gave a positive evaluation of homosexuality. The message he offered was very mixed, and a bit confusing.

As a result, according to Crux, the bishop’s words and message were not well-received by either progressives or conservatives.  The news report stated:

“To illustrate his point, he used a pejorative Spanish term for a gay man, offending members of Colombia‘s gay community during a speech intended to denounce discrimination based on sexual orientation. . . . Conservatives, meanwhile, raised an eyebrow when the bishop said that homosexuality is not a sin and that gays are welcomed by the church.”

In his original speech, Córdoba spoke very positively about gay and lesbian people.  The following, according to Crux, are some of his statements:

“ ‘No one chooses to be gay or straight,’ Córdoba said. ‘One simply feels, loves, experiments, is attracted, and no attraction is bad.’. . .

“Although Córdoba reiterated Church teaching when it comes to marriage – that it’s a union between a man and a woman, permanent, and open to children – he said that homosexuality isn’t a sin.

“ ‘Sin is something else. It’s not respecting the dignity of others. Not loving God and our neighbors as we love ourselves, not feeding the hungry, not giving water to the thirsty,’ Córdoba said.

“According to local reports, Córdoba said that in the Bible there’s no explicit rejection of homosexuality, suggesting there’s no basis for making a condemnation of homosexuality a Church doctrine. . . .

“Córdoba asked those in favor of the gay rights bill not to call the opposition ‘recalcitrant, dinosaurs, cavemen, retarded, because we also have the right to present our ideas and our emotions with respect.’

” ‘There will come a time when the Catholic Church is a minority that will be crushed by the majority,’ he warned. ‘Let us respect each other, without using adjectives or telling anyone they’re sick or disordered.’ “

Yet, the bishop did return to the language of “disorder” when he issued his apology and clarification of what he originally had said. A follow-up Crux article reported on his change of mind:

“ ‘Even if homosexuality as an inclination doesn’t constitute a sin, it’s regarded as a disordered conduct,’ he said.

“Córdoba said that his words were not intended to modify the ‘solid and unchangeable moral position of the Church,’ but to express respect in an auditorium which, according to the prelate, was mostly composed of leaders and members of the LGBT community. “

The bishop also apologized for his use of “unfortunate colloquial expressions,”  and explained the use of the pejorative in terms of the situation of his speech:

“The bishop also admitted that he didn’t know there were members of the press present at the event, and that he only used such colloquial expressions because of the academic and dialogic context of the encounter, adding that they had no theological or moral value.”

It is difficult to assess this controversy.  The bishop seems to have been sincerely interested in building bridges with the lesbian and gay community in Colombia, a nation which is currently debating legalizing marriage equality.  His use of a derogatory word was certainly ill-advised, at the least, but his apology for it seems sincere.

It is curious, however, that the bishop’s apology and clarification in which he reverts to traditional hierarchical language was issued not by his diocese but, according to the news report, by the Colombian bishops’ conference.  That seems to indicate that his second set of remarks were motivated by someone from that organization.

What is important, though, is that even in this more conservative clarification, the bishop offered some very positive statements about lesbian and gay people:

“ ‘With a mother’s love, the Church welcomes every man and woman, whatever their condition, conscious that regardless of their sexual inclination – and even sexual behavior – every person has the same fundamental dignity,’ Córdoba said.

“Regardless of the controversy it may have generated, Córdoba said, Thursday’s encounter at the University of Los Andes was the first public encounter between a Colombian bishop and the LGBT community.

“ ‘It proves that it’s possible to establish an honest and frank dialogue that could allow us to bring down the walls and discover each other as brothers,’ the bishop wrote in the letter.”

I think the bishop’s heart wanted genuinely to do something positive towards the LGBT community.  It is unfortunate that his message became so muddled by his use of a harmful slur and his pulling back from his favorable evaluation.  This was the first encounter between the church hierarchy and the Colombian LGBT community.  Let’s hope it is not the last, and that Bishop Córdoba’s original intention to show respect and outreach will be manifested more clearly in the future.

–Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry

 

 

 


QUOTE TO NOTE: ‘No, You Didn’t.’ ‘Yes, I Did.’

May 19, 2015

computer_key_Quotation_MarksDr. Carys Massarella, a highly respected emergency room physician at St. Joseph’s Hospital, Hamilton, Ontario, is a transgender woman.

Dr. Carys Massarella

In an interview with CHCH radio in which she discussed her journey of transition, which she did while working at the Catholic hospital, noting:

“I must say, my American colleagues…every time I tell them I did this at a Catholic hospital they are like ‘no you didn’t’ and I’m like ‘yes I did.’ ”

–Francis DeBernardo, New Ways Ministry


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